It was not a bobcat. Somewhere the way they travel the things they do they're going to leave evidence. So I've been convinced the whole time that I saw a big cougar plume or whatever you want to call it standing there in the road in Greenfield. So try to take photographs if you see something like this. Residents believe cougars still roam New Hampshire's forests. The 17-year-old Kiger mustang mare was born in Bend, Oregon, said Hodskins, who got her . And now that everyone and their mother has a remote camera in their back yard its just so, so unlikely that there are resident, breeding mountain lions in New England that are living invisibly among us, he says, Its become Big Foot.. Support for an age PR comes from you our listeners. Peter Biello: Sam I wanted to ask you a little bit about that first and then turn to Patrick Tate efficient game. All of that remains unanswered but it is an extremely interesting question. Someone's got to see one they're very secretive. Patrick Tate: Martin Like what about Panther Panther saying animals same animal and like a bit of trivia Guinness Book of World Records says the animal with the most names is in English alone they're supposedly 40 names for Mount lion. The supervisor that hired me in the game division in October of 1978 passed on to me this whole big folder of mountain lion information and sightings going back probably a couple decades. It all used to be based on measurable physical traits color, skull size, paw size, etc but now its based on whether an animal can be shown to be genetically distinct from others. Patrick Tate: I've from all the situations I've read and learned about wildlife. Think you've seen a mountain lion. WMUR uLocal: On this trail cam video, an unidentified feline is spotted. We're going to talk a little bit more about habitat first but then we'll get into sightings. Caller: Oh yeah. Just one quick point I think I think when we we talk about these conspiracy theories the real story is that fish and game is an agency that that is short on budget and staff. Its impossible to say, but I think the odds are pretty good that some of these sightings are legit. Early in the morning. Infinite Scroll Enabled. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. Well just that I have evidence and it was not it was denied by fishing game at the time and I you know there's I don't need to prove to anybody that I saw one just like some of your callers said okay. Mountain lions when they show up they leave evidence. You know you have to have a license and it's hard to get that license a license to own a mountain lion. Sam Evans-Brown: But I mean the video I had been sent was you know a recording of a animal growling but it was in slow motion and when I asked the person why is this in slow motion the denied that it was so there's a lot of weird stuff that happens in regards to people claiming they've seen they've seen these things. I wanted to get your thoughts on the mystique of the mountain lion start with you Rick. So that's the specimen that you find going long distances. Peter Biello: Well Karl Jarvis a former reporter for The King's son Nile thank you very much for for calling in and sharing your perspective and to his point Patrick T. I mean yes we haven't met the scientific burden of proof here in New Hampshire as far as physical evidence is is concerned but is there room at Fish and Game For A kind of an informal nod to all of the people who have somehow convinced themselves and possibly some others that yeah there may be occasional sightings here. Had great trees behind it beautiful ferns on the ground so it brought me down on the site and the ferns on the ground matched. OK. These were normal everyday folks. Peter Biello: Listeners give us a call if you have a question or a story of a sighting 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. So one thing I'll add we're talking about natural dispensers but talking with the conservation officer in the 1980s they recall going to a residence telling a person you can live here but your mountain lion can't. On a dirt road. We've met Fish and Game's BURDEN OF PROOF. What gets confusing is when you have a large adult animal and a smaller juvenile animal of a different species you can now step start beginning talking about overlapping body weights and sizes. Have you seen one. Because I mean as we've heard in the past 10 minutes like there's there's some disagreement or at least some some vagueness about what an actual mountain lion should appear like in the wild assuming we can even get close enough. Peter Biello: And Carl before you continue I think Patrick Tate just give me a second. Mountain Lions in New Hampshire-Fact or Fiction - YouTube So I certainly can't dispute anything that they said there's no evidence for me to go by to verify or say what my thoughts are on the situation. Kyle I think about Rick Tate wants to jump in here. So. And Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. And Rick Van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. So it's there was no question in my mind. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. So so they're just a very resilient species and they're pretty they're pretty neat. Sue Morse: First and foremost if you have color or if you could see details of color look at the front of the face around the Pumas muzzle the muzzle itself is pure white. There's never, ever, ever, ever been a documented case of a black mountain lion. Ive received pictures of dogs at odd angles, says Tate. Administrative Links. And those and that's how you can go from a story that Pat says I have nothing to say about that to a story that you know could be the first verified sighting in over 100 years. Thanks for taking my call. And so I just wanted to share my share my experience with you guys and it was pretty awesome to see if you get to see one albeit it was in the brush. (Cue the X-Files music: The Government is denying the cougars exist!) This decision was primarily for nerdy phylogeny reasons, though, because the eastern cougar probably never existed. Right. Thank you for visiting the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department website. Today, their range stretches from the Yukon Territory in Canada along the western coast of the United States, all the way to the Southern Andes in Chile. JavaScript must be enabled for some features to display properly. There was no sign of it. They create these big latrines that are very obvious. Erler is a senior naturalist at the Squam Lakes Natural Science Center in Holderness. Is this kind of a typical story. Peter Biello: I did mention four feet nose to tail would be kind of small for a mountain lion. This is a machine-generated transcript, and may contain errors. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. It's good to talk to you. And today we're talking about the mysterious elusive mountain line with folks who know something about it. And I saw you cat about four feet long from nose to tail come across from the water across the road and just leap over a six foot perimeter fence in a single bound. Do cougars live in New England? Have a photo. For all the men out there that don't realize it. Lions Clubs Int'l Links: LionNet NH Links 2011 -2012 . Windham Life and Times - November 15, 2019 And you know it's rather interesting because certainly there are those you as a case of mistaken identity or they wanted to see something that perhaps they actually didn't. Well let me ask maybe Pat and Rick about this. We'll be right back. So they're not afraid of humans and they'll show up like a regular housecat. Gotcha, so the Deep State is suppressing mountain lion news in order to prop up New Hampshire tourism? Patrick Tate: Yeah yeah. Mountain lions live in the state. Peter Biello: Let's go to Mike in Epping. The states never denied mountain lions are here, and theyve never admitted mountain lions are here. And so so with their limited staff and limited budget that is that is more and more limited every year because you know fewer people are buying hunting and fishing licenses. Mike Guyton pressure was almost Greyhound like very muscular large back legs on it and the coloration on it was almost an orange brownish orange color and so I stop and I look at this thing in the field and as the animal looks at me the face was very chiseled definitely not a bobcat. Rick van de Poll: Rick your thoughts. Part II. So the whole media hype about how scary mountain lions are should should go away immediately and that would be that I think the major thrust of educating folks about these casualties vs.. Sam Evans-Brown: Sam go ahead. It's not an emerging endangered species no work no there are there are populations in specific states so the Florida panther is is an endangered species that sub population is in fact listed under the Endangered Species Act. The great thing about pictures isn't the animal itself it's the background. Mountain Lions in NH - Facebook I'm gonna send you a letter that we researched this report and we spoke with those labs and the lab wrote in their letter to us that they could only say that Scott contained white Tea Party fur and that they could not say what deposited the scout because it's far too degraded listeners we'd love to hear from you about your mountain lion sightings if you have seen one or if you if you think you have give us a call we'd love to hear your story 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. You know I'm like seriously I can't get a picture of the thing but what it what it is. So Michael follows with the question. The nonbelievers are going to say Show us your evidence and show us prove this to us. So before we get to the the the the stories of sightings we're getting a lot of calls. Patrick Tate: Same here in New Hampshire too. So so it is possible in Maine to still to to to have one but you have to be sort of professional handler as it were. We'll hear from her periodically through the show. So that that's more or less I think why I'm here and why I got into this in nineteen ninety nine I found a what appeared to be a print of a mountain lion and that was in the Osprey mountains and I thought well OK that's that's a print. The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid 80s hundreds. Monday, December 5th: Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? Okay. I just want to tell you a story that I read. The second story window through about 30 feet away from it. I wasn't employed as biologists at the time of a situation that's been reported but so I started digging into this report and spoke with another wildlife biologist with the agency and said Do you know anything about this. Peter Biello: Yeah. NH Wildlife News and Info | NH Wildlife Anyways after three weeks I finally found the image on line on a field and stream photo contest and the explanation in the end was the person that set the camera out with another individual and they believed that someone who knew of the camera location saw the similarities put the can't picture on their SD card so it looked like that camera recorded the image that is. Tate said that while a mountain lion sighting in New Hampshire isn't likely, it's not impossible. Now Bobcat is a completely different species. Patrick Tate: In theory it's a passing ball of a court and it goes wherever the bottom Ball wants to go. I mean that so many of them are false sightings we. It's listed as population of least concern. For over 38 years the Saddleback Mountain Lions have offered people a chance to give back to their community. Phone number 1 800. Its distinctive featurethe one that sets it apart from other North American wild catsis its tail, which is thick and often as long as its body. Each person had their own copy and now it was identify the trees the species of tree matched. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. I live pretty much on the town line of Greenfield just a couple of miles down in the Greenfield. Ecosystem Management Consultants of New England, Ask Sam, and recently fielded question about mountain lions, 10 things to do in NH this weekend: Dartmouth Dance, Hamilton De Holanda & more, Turkish restaurant in the Upper Valley aims to help those affected by recent earthquakes, RFK Jr. tells NH crowd hes considering a presidential run, Epping woman pleads guilty to threatening Michigan election official in 2020, We also hear excerpts from an interview with, Read about the most recent cougar "sightings". Long before NASA was asked to put a man on the moon one engineer had already figured out how to get there. Thanks also to Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England and Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in about the natural world and how we use it. Rick van de Poll: Yes. Have it reported down in the Keene area. Using DNA and physical evidence, state environmental officials said they determined that the animal. Despite numerous reports, the NH Fish and Game Department continues to have no physical evidence of mountain lion presence in the state. So one thing I'd point out is we've been talking about situations with no evidence a number of them come in with photographs and yet what they fit what they description of the animal they saw and by the way I got a picture of what I saw. I mean no doubt a seen Bobcat seen his stuff. The species that once inhabited the Northeast, known as the eastern mountain lion, is now extinct. So the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station has a database on mountain lion and they can identify. Patrick Tate: Well I've never seen an Easter cougar so I can't say when I've handled these 10 cougars and whatnot. Absolutely there are a lot of folks out there who for some reason need to create something that raises a stir and gets the attention of the media etc.. Peter Biello: Ok. Today she talked with us a little bit before the show about why the mountain line is so compelling and why we want it to be part of our world. So here in New Hampshire when a person turns in something that the Department believes is possible mountain lion and believes it should be investigated further. 1957. Peter Biello: Thank you for sharing that. Peter Biello: Well I want to ask Patrick about one of these stories a few years ago you had a story about someone who claimed to. So I learned about what Rick just reported through a heart of heart of New Hampshire a letter and. I tracked cats and all the western states. I mean so what what is the practical change that it would bring to New Hampshire if any. These young males are tracking looking for mates and if they don't find a mate they just keep moving and moving and moving. Let's go now to to Kyle in Keene I believe Kyle is this Kyle Jarvis from the Keene Sentinel a former reporter and former reporter. The report came in from a conservation officer. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an PR. We discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. So there's even debate about that very subject. I've actually had to walk in on one or two now and look at what was going on and figured out what was going on. So do they. So. Second when I when they did forward it from Wyoming to to Michigan you know this was coming right from sample 18 and 19 had no remarkable differences from known mountain lions from Michigan or Wyoming. Pelosi story here we go. Mountain Lion report and as a biologist for the state that's a situation where if he said to me what did I see. On Oct. 10, he gave a slide talk called "Wild Cats of New Hampshire," which included the bobcat and the lynx. New Hampshire Public Radio | Good morning guys. Rick van de Poll: Absolutely. Some argue that it's a leap of faith. Peter Biello: But clearly you know you're saying like hoaxes people who claim to have seen a mountain lion but knowingly have not or are appropriating photos taken elsewhere of legit mountain lion say out West where they people acknowledge that they exist certainly knowingly or unknowingly in this case the person who sent it to me said hey a friend of mine sent me this photo and said he took it on his back porch also. So yeah as far as wildlife species that put deer and trees know there aren't any others that I know of that put deer in trees just just humans might be responsible for that. Squam Lake: Home of mountain lions - Concord Monitor Peter Biello: Yeah well what do you think Pat is. But I was riding a mountain bike not far from my house. And as the biologist who's gonna stand on this and if I'm going to say this is a proven picture I need to be able to stand on it so soundly and have the evidence so I going to go through it with a fine tooth comb kept picking pieces apart trying to answer these pieces. Caller: It had to be a mountain lion convinced I was about 30. Peter Biello: Well yeah. Patrick Tate: So Cougar Mountain Lion katama. One was in Shelton. They sent it already. If it's just in the middle of a greenfield you can't prove anything. The term is because mascots notwithstanding right that they're referred to with a lot of different terms and sometimes they can be confused with a lot of different terms. People were calling the New Hampshire Fish and Game director's office saying why are you dragging your feet on this. They are the same thing. Patrick Tate: If I could just say one thing. And I think this is a really interesting story for a couple of reasons one is that it proves what Pat was saying which that basically from New York state where its traces was really picked up on a game camera around Lake George all the way down to Connecticut there was numerous. Sam. The trouble with accepting every reported sighting as a confirmed mountain lion is that there are so many mistaken identifications. To date most of the pictures that have been sent in have been bobcats and other species Ive received pictures of house cats. Select image for larger view. Caller: Yeah. Caller: Well I think Patrick I recognized your name. Well they are the same. So I just throwing that out there it's interesting. I don't know if she still is. And I was probably about a half a mile from downtown all village on the right. So when we talk about the threshold of evidence required to say for sure you have seen a mountain lion it is rather high. We are the second most-forested state in the country, and those forests can be impenetrable snarls (part of why the Northeast is notoriously a difficult place to hunt deer), and while there are people in a lot of those woods, because the cats have been absent for a few generations now, most of those people dont know what a cougar scrape or latrine look and smell like. Mountain Lions are a mythical creature in New Hampshire with strong feelings on both sides of the question: are there Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? Caller: I do. Mountain lions remain an enigmatic animal for residents of New Hampshire, with New Hampshire Fish and Game reporting three to five sightings per week. So I reached down to grab the camera and looked back and like a ghost it's gone. BRADFORD, N.H. - All that snow in parts of the Northeast has more than just kids jumping for winter joy. Thank you very much for being here. I was at the Sentinel as a reporter there for about four years and during that time I probably wrote close to a half dozen stories or so on this topic including a lengthy feature at one point that in which I spoke to several people from around the banana region claimed to have seen mountain lions that at one time or another. So so do what you can get to do what you can to get proof. Residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. So we're fixated on natural but there's other possibilities. And I have to use that word allegedly because there is so much dispute about what people see and what they actually see. Monday, December 5th: Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? Part II - WMUR And it was unmistakable. There are mountain lion in Massachusetts. Sam what's the incentive for the government to deny allegedly. Have you heard stories do you have questions about the mountain line. Yeah 13 to 15 years ago 13 to 15 years ago. I would say that there's going to be the truth in here somewhere. support for an HBO who comes from you our listener Sam from advanced in you a local New Hampshire nonprofit specializing in college student loans and student refinancing options. The exchange is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio. Information online ad an age student loans dawg. Sam Evans-Brown: Certainly that is a thing I've heard but again you have to think of the incentives involved here. I really really enjoyed listening to this program so thank you all very much. Give today. It's bigger but bigger and better world. About two years ago I was at the Laconia airport on the way home from the airport and there's a big lake on one side called Lily Pond. They were able to do all that by genetics. Mark Elbroch doesnt think so. And boy it was big it had to be at least 200 pounds the thing was you and and it just made a little bit of noise and it was gone. Patrick Tate: Well. "Of those three to five reports,. We send out DNA samples to the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station. They're very loyal to what the handler which makes them very dangerous to everyone else. It's unfortunate that that kind of thing happens as often as it does. Sam Evans-Brown: So Tim so this cat's been been referenced a couple of times I think we should talk about it specifically lay the whole story out for folks who haven't heard the story because it's actually I think really indicative of a lot of stuff for talking about. Michael Brindley is our program manager our producers our Jessica Hunt and Christina Phillips and our theme music was composed by Bob Lord. Me Im willing to believe its possible that there are some out there. Through DNA they approximate area in the United States or North America where I was born. This is where things start breaking down when you so I get pictures with this great description and one of my favorite stories is a great description what the witness and then so I called the witness and wanted information from them and the person says What are you talking about. Peter Biello: Hmm. Sam Evans-Brown has been working for New Hampshire Public Radio since 2010, when he began as a freelancer. Sam Evans-Brown: Well and I think and the last takeaway here is everyone I think probably agrees that any possible sightings that have been seen. We'll also hear your stories if you have them again. Peter Biello: We mentioned that the eastern cougar and the Western cougar are they were separate eastern cougar believed to be extinct. Mountain lions (especially males) have incredibly large ranges that they defend from rivals. While State Denies Mtn Lions are in NH, Numerous Sightings Say Peter Biello: Give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 you can also send us an email exchange at an HP morgue. A 140-pound male mountain lion was hit by a car and killed in 2011 in Milford, Connecticut. Copyright New Hampshire Fish and Game Department.An official New Hampshire government website. If you believe you have seen a mountain lion and want to report it to NH Fish and Game, please contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. I've seen him in the woods and that was not a bobcat but I was looking at. GAP MOUNTAIN LIONS CLUB Fitzwilliam, New Hampshire (USA) District 44-N . He studied Politics and Spanish at Bates College, and before reporting was variously employed as a Spanish teacher, farmer, bicycle mechanic, ski coach, research assistant, a wilderness trip leader and a technical supporter. The Lions of New Hampshire: MD44 Links. So let's let's go to the phones. But you've done some reporting on this. You know perhaps poke around where you saw it and see if you can find a track. Patrick Tate: So I agree with what Sam said in part that their ability to go undetected for amount of time but ultimately it was detected. 10 things to do in NH this weekend: Dartmouth Dance, Hamilton De Holanda & more, Turkish restaurant in the Upper Valley aims to help those affected by recent earthquakes, RFK Jr. tells NH crowd hes considering a presidential run, Epping woman pleads guilty to threatening Michigan election official in 2020. Fish and Game then deny the evidence. And so maybe before I go to you recommend I ask you Patrick Tate is the standard too high.
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